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On April
24th, 2000, I spent some time in an ICQ chat with Mackenzie Ponech
about Two Guys Software and the game, Revelation, they are
developing. Below is a transcript of the chat.
Mackenzie
is part of a growing trend of new game developers just beginning to
develop games for the Christian market. All of them are shoe
string operations subsisting on meager financing. They all
have day jobs that keep bread on the table. But
they are eager to bring Christian gaming to a new level.
Perhaps one day, we'll all look on this early introduction to Two
Guys as the beginning of something big.
Their
game, Revelation is still very early in the development cycle.
They are still creating a prototype. In fact, no screen shots
are yet available. This interview has two values. One,
it is a very early glimpse at what hopefully will one day be an
exciting game. Two, it offers a bit of insight for those who've
contemplated creating a game but were unsure what might be involved.
To help round out this second bit of insight check out our other
interviews for Redemption,
War in Heaven
and Saints of Virtue.
We'll be
doing a follow up article on "Revelation" once their
prototype is finished and we can see what the game might look
like. If all goes well, we hope to follow the development of
this exciting game all the way to its release.
The
People
CGaming:
Well, first off, introduce yourself and what you are currently developing and with whom.
Mackenzie: I'm Mackenzie Ponech, Founder and Co-Owner of Two Guys Software, we are currently creating a Christian game after the book of Revelation called Revelation.
We are the only developers. Two Guys Software is the only company creating Revelation, no other company is involved at the current time.
CGaming: When did you first form Two Guys Software?
Mackenzie: Two Guys Software came into being the summer of 1999
CGaming: Who did you form the company with? Friends, Online acquaintances?
Mackenzie: My father was interested in what I was doing so he joined on as the other co-owner of Two Guys Software
CGaming: Your web site has an impressive list of other developers.
Are you all in the same area or all over the country?
Mackenzie: Our current freelancing volunteers live all across
North America, in Canada and in the United States. The only problems we face are things like Real Life (tm) and sometimes miss communications
CGaming: Can you tell me a little about yourself, your father and the development team? Something to help the readers get a better feel for who you are and where you're coming from.
Mackenzie: Well I started playing games a long time ago, I was always
extremely fascinated on how games work. So I would spend most of my free time planning games out, etc.
Ever since I was a young child (in grade 2) I was extremely fascinated
in computer games, I saw my first one back then and I've been hooked since. From then on I was driven to play games, take them apart and see what makes them run or I would sit down and plan little or big games.
I started to get really interested in the Christian gaming market when Wisdom Tree released
Spiritual Warfare for the Nintendo. Ever since I saw that game I was set on making my own game.
So I was planning out a game from then, my father started to help me out but after a while I got
frustrated and gave up. Then in the summer of 1999 I wanted to go forth with my dream.
CGaming: Is your father programming with you or is he a backer of the project?
Mackenzie: My father does the financial end of the company, he also helps me
a lot with Revelation with supporting ideas, putting in some of his own, or disagreeing with ideas.
CGaming: <nod> How about the other developers? How did you find them and what's their part in this?
Mackenzie: Well I found a web page called gamejobs.com and put our company on there. We got
a lot of responses that way, I also spent days / weeks on end searching gaming
communities (quake, half life, unreal, etc.) for people who wanted to leave a team working on a total
conversion for one of those games and join up.
Mackenzie: Ok, I could say all the people in TGS (Two Guys Software) work to either expand their skills or they want to stick on with us for future plans.
CGaming: Were you looking for other Christian developers, programmers? Or are you taking the best of what you find regardless?
Mackenzie: Well, I did look for Christian programmers/modelers/2d artist/etc. but I couldn't find very many, and the ones that I did find we're busy with real life and couldn't help us out. So most of TGS is made of non-Christian people, however they do know what we are doing and they have no problems with it so far.
CGaming: Sounds like an interesting challenge. I hope it all works out well.
Mackenzie: I hope so to
The Game
CGaming: Now, about the game :) I know the readers will be upset if I don't actually get on with asking about your project.
CGaming: There is a great deal of interest and desire out there by Christians to see a quality game built around Christian principles. What is Revelation going to be and what kind of quality are you striving for?
Mackenzie: B-)
Mackenzie: What is Revelation going to be? What type of game, etc. ?
CGaming: Yes, let's start out with that. Is it going to be a First Person Shooter?
Perhaps a hybrid like Half Life? What other types of game elements are you including?
Mackenzie: TGS (Two Guys Software) is only going to make a special type of game called a Hybrid, where
two of different types of games are mixed together. However there is going to be one major type that rules over the rest. Revelation is going to be an
"Action Hybrid," so you have a lot of game elements mixed together but the main element is action. I think the Christian gaming community needs a good action game B-)
CGaming: What other types of game elements are you including?
Mackenzie: Oh, lets see, tactical, role playing, action (first person), simulation (driving)
CGaming: Tactical as in Rogue Spear? <grin>
Mackenzie: yes <grin>
CGaming: That sounds very interesting. What parts of roleplaying are you
including...character development?
Mackenzie: Char. development, thick story, communication with NPC's (Non player characters), etc.
CGaming: Will the game cover the entire book of Revelation?
Mackenzie: The game takes place after the Rapture and it goes on till the end
of the book.
CGaming: Are you following a Pre-millennial, Mid-Millennial
or Post Millennial, or Amillennial approach?
<grin>
Mackenzie: What? The exact time the game takes place?
CGaming: You don't have to answer that one. I was just kidding with you. There are many different
ideas of what the end times are and what Revelation means. There's a
great debate that's been going on for hundreds of years.
Mackenzie: yah I know :-D That's why Revelation is going
to be a interesting game to make.
CGaming: Yes, but I take it you're going to follow the traditional route such as the videos depict...hmm, what's their names...Rapture, The Beast and ....
They were made in the early 70s.
Mackenzie: oh yah, mark of the beast, some others
CGaming: Yes, that's it :) Thanks.
Mackenzie: (I have those :-) )
CGaming: Can you tell us what the story will be about?
Not just revelation, but the story of the person who'll live through it?
Mackenzie: In a nut shell: You we're a part of a extermination group who killed groups of
Christians. You finally come to your senses and realize,
"why are you doing this?" So, you go out to seek more information on these rebels, then you convert over to their side and help them survive. Like one previous team members said,
"it's almost like a twist off the story of Saul / Paul"
CGaming: <nod>
CGaming: You're using the Genesis 3D engine, correct?
Mackenzie: Yes, however our programmers are working like madmen to upgrade it and make it beyond
today's standards. I have to give praise to them. They are working
wonders. Good work guys. :-D
CGaming: It's a great engine to begin with. It sounds like you have something good going here. Persistence is the key :)
Mackenzie: We sure do, I hope it turns out :-)
CGaming: Revelation is your first software title then?
Mackenzie: yes
CGaming: Are you seeking a publisher?
Mackenzie: Once we are done with the Revelation demo, we will take it to a group of investors
but even if we don't get investors we will still continue making Revelation.
CGaming: How close is the demo to being done?
Mackenzie: <grin> lets say we are pushing for a summer release.
CGaming: Summer release of the final game?
Mackenzie: No, just the demo.
CGaming: Heh, OK, Good. You have a couple months yet :)
CGaming: What is your release schedule for the game? Is that dependent on getting a publisher or do you plan to go ahead regardless?
Mackenzie: it depends on the investors part, if we don't get invested into then the game could sink, however we are
persistent and our hard work will not go to waste.
CGaming: It seems that the people who were writing games for the Christian market some years
ago (Wisdom Tree for instance) have all gone by the wayside. There
now seems to be few new groups trying to break into the Christian market. What do you think sets your project apart from those who've come before?
Mackenzie: We're releasing Revelation on both the Christian and
secular markets
Mackenzie: Things that put us apart is that we don't shove the Bible down peoples throats, scream
verses in their faces and yell that they are all going to hell. That type of ministry does not work well with the non-Christian market.
CGaming: So, are you specifically reaching out to non-Christians? What's the major focus of the game then?
Mackenzie: Main objective 2: To reach out to non-Christians
CGaming: Another way of putting it is, "What're you trying to accomplish?"
Mackenzie: 1: To create a great game that Christian teens and adults can enjoy
Mackenzie: Main objective 2: To create a great game that will reach out to non-Christian people and get them interested in the Trinity (God, Jesus and the Holy Sprit)
CGaming: Very good. How do you intend for the story to express the Gospel? I can see how it'd be a natural result of the story, but do you have specific thoughts on how you'll use it to reach out to non-Christians?
Mackenzie: Ooooo, that's a good question and pat (my father) and I have been working hard to express the Gospel in such a way that it will reach out to people, we want to make a impact without a great uproar of people bashing Christianity, we know you can't please all the people all the
time.
CGaming: You going to sneak it into the story or be up front with it?...the Gospel message that is.
Mackenzie: We're going to sneak it in. Well I can't really say that, we might do both, it depends on the situation the player is in.
CGaming: A well presented "up front" message can be done in a very compelling manner
that doesn't come across as "bible thumping" or "doom preaching."
I hope you can find the right balance.
Mackenzie: I just thought the same thing when I wrote the message above me :-)
So do I, it's going to be a hard thing to tackle, but we are sure we'll get it
CGaming: We're at the end of the interview here. Is there anything you want to tell us which will help our readers better understand this game and help them to look forward toward its release?
Mackenzie: :-)
CGaming: Perhaps when you get your prototype/demo ready you'll be able to show us more (or sooner perhaps). I can understand wanting to keep your secrets safe in the meantime. But a few hints every now and then is a good thing for publicity (nudge nudge>
Mackenzie: The game is extremely original. There's A LOT of information I wish I could tell you but we are worried about other
companies taking our stuff and putting it in their game. Revelation is not going to be some little Christian game that makes you go: bleh when
you play it
CGaming: <grin> I hate Christian games that make me go
"bleh"
Mackenzie: Ok, here I'll leave you with a little hint: You are going to be God's chosen.
Mackenzie: Hey wait a minute, you didn't ask me about the
environment, weapons, enemys, etc. :-/ I was looking forward to that part :-)
CGaming: Well, go ahead :) What about the environment?
Mackenzie: (sorry about that)
CGaming: I didn't have a complete list of questions in front of me so thanks for getting me back on track there :)
Mackenzie: no problem, I just want people to get a bit excited,
that's all :-) we don't want to hype the game, just put a little wanting for it :-)
CGaming: That's what this is for. It's for you to get the word out and help satisfy our reader's curiosity.
Mackenzie: Ok, Revelation will take place in 3 different areas, you start off in one city (section 1) you travel to section 2 (the country side, and a secret area in between that) then you go to the other city. Both cities will be different and not the same.
CGaming: The Genesis 3D engine doesn't do outdoor scenes well. You have a secret plan there?
Mackenzie: Yes, the game takes place a good percentage outside, we're not going to have a game that runs bad outside and good inside
CGaming: You planning on using the terrain generator they've been working on for G3D or doing something proprietary?
Mackenzie: For the 2nd section (the country side) we might use the
terrain generator
CGaming: It'll be a tough nut to crack. Good luck. How about the weapons and power ups?
Mackenzie: Weapons >:-) my favorite part of the game
Mackenzie: Well we have two different categories for weapons Non-Lethal weapons to use on humans, animals, etc. and Holy Weapons, used against demons and spawns from hell, etc.
CGaming: Now that's interesting. What kind of Holy Weapons
and will you have "power ups" to make the weapons stronger?
Mackenzie: The holy weapons we are using will be like the medieval
weapons in the Bible, we're not going to have the player throwing apples at demons. Things like bow and arrows, "the" sword, staffs, spears, etc. come to mind. We
haven't decided the names for the Holy Weapons, we might call them after the fruits of the
spirit, however The Sword of Kindness doesn't really strike fear in the hearts of anyone
;-)
Mackenzie: In multiplayer (yes Revelation will be the FIRST
[Christian] game with multiplayer, at least I think it is...) we might have power-ups.
Mackenzie: Well, I haven't heard of any other Christian games yet that have
multiplayer modes, I could be wrong, is there?
Editor's Note: Certain Christian games such as Heaven Quest
are designed to have more than one player playing. The point
here was an integrated online multiplayer capability such as those
found in most modern First Person Shooters.
CGaming: I don't know of any other Christian game that has
"any" multiplayer at all.
There will be once the guys who made "Saints of Virtue" get their next game done.
Mackenzie: Ok, then we'll just say that it does until someone corrects me :-).
Really, I thought they quit after SOV (Saints of Virtue)
CGaming: They announced a new game a couple weeks ago.
Mackenzie: Ack!
Mackenzie: <Two Guys sets a new demo date>
CGaming: Heh, don't worry. Their success will be your success and visa-versa.
Mackenzie: Heheheh just kidding :-)
Mackenzie: Our main concern is that people will start up Revelation and say "been there, done
that." That's why we are so close on information that gets out.
CGaming: There's no big "powerhouse" of Christian gaming yet so you're in good position to get it right before someone else does :)
CGaming: About the enemies. You have demons and humans. You mention lethal and non-lethal weapons. I presume the Christian character is unable to wipe out a group of heathens?
Mackenzie: non-lethal weapons used for humans, holy weapons used for demons, you cannot use holy weapons on humans
or non-lethal weapons on demons
CGaming: Before the hero gets saved, is he running around wiping out Christians, ala Rogue Spear? I can see a number of potential non-Christian players who'd probably get a kick out of that.
Mackenzie: That's the main introduction video, the player does not have the chance to go kill Christians with
lethal weapons
CGaming: So, the game starts out with the main character saved?
Mackenzie: yes
CGaming: <nod>
CGaming: How about interaction with the environment? Will it be simplistic like the Quake clones ore do you intend to do something more elaborate such as is used in Thief/II and Might and Magic series....or even
the Ultima games.
Mackenzie: I think I can release this information: you can interact with everything in your
environment: pick up, destroy, maybe even change things in your
environment
CGaming: Switches? <grin>.
Mackenzie: Switches will be in the game :-)
CGaming: Gotta have switches...whee!
Mackenzie: Yah, how can you turn a light on or off without one ;-)
CGaming: Will you be able to use objects to manipulate the environment, such as having various pieces to fit together to solve
a puzzle?
Mackenzie: It depends
CGaming: Depends on?
Mackenzie: It depends on if we want to do it and if we can do it
CGaming: Ahh, OK. technical limitations you aren't sure will be there or not.
Mackenzie: that's right
CGaming: I'm out of questions again. Did I miss anything you can think of?
Mackenzie: Lets see
CGaming: Sound!
CGaming: You going to use 3D sound and how much importance are you going to put into getting just the right sound?
Mackenzie: Sound to me is one of the 3 major things in a game, Gameplay, Grahpics, Sound is always key, we are going to work hard on
getting just the right sounds, also a lot of different sounds. An example is that we have over 40 walking sounds :-)
CGaming: 40? Heh. That's impressive. I'd say that I've never head more than a handful of different walking sounds,
even in the best games.
Mackenzie: yes, the current max I've heard is 8-12 different types
Mackenzie: Last things to cover: music and graphics for the
models and textures :-)
CGaming: Technical stuff. How many polys is usually too much detail cuz the player wants it to look cool, run well and be
fun, etc.
Mackenzie: The gaming community (well most of them, I've heard)
agree that between 800-1000 polys is good
Mackenzie: Yes, but the more polys = the better computer your going to
have
to have. We want Revelation to run good on older computers
CGaming: But the more polys the better looking. What speed computer Pentium/ PII / PIII are you shooting for as the minimum required system?
Mackenzie: I don't know at the current time
CGaming: There's other things such as, do you plan to use motion capture or create motions from existing files and work out what's not there as needed?
Mackenzie: no, we're not that rich :-)
CGaming: Heh :)
Mackenzie: We are, however, going to have very smooth and realistic movement with all the actions the models do
Mackenzie: We have the best :-)
CGaming: You'll be needing some pretty good animators on staff. Pretty cool stuff though.
CGaming: When do you anticipate Revelation hitting the store shelves, assuming all goes well?
Mackenzie: You've heard the term: when it's done.
Mackenzie: :-) I know the term has been used a lot and it's annoying to hear it, however we want the best game for the players out their.
I hate bad games.
CGaming: Well, the Christian market needs to get that "break out" game to shake potential investors into realizing that this market can actually be profitable. I really hope that all goes well with your game and you end up being wildly successful. Do you have any last words to say to the readers who are going to be quite anxious now to see your game done?
Mackenzie: Sure, first of all it isn't "my" game, it's TGS's (Two Guys Software) game, all of us put love, hard work, frustration, etc. into it. It's our game. Also for the readers, hang tight, you're going to be very pleased on what we have done. :-)
CGaming: Thank you very much, Mackenzie, for taking time to share with us.
Mackenzie: Hey no problem, what can I say, I found the center of Christian Gaming :-) and we wanted to post something with them.
CGaming: Thanks :)
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